Why Can’t We Do This?

John Winter’s most recent update concerned a well produced video aimed at getting metal detecting legalized in Ireland. I wanted to share it here and then ask you, why can’t we come up with something similar?
 

 
Just my opinion but I think being able to present a professionally done video similar to this would go a long way toward promoting our pastime here in the states, especially when dealing with local governing bodies.

What about it manufacturers?  You have the money. Do you have the time?

To Liam Nolan and all the tekkies in Ireland, best of luck and please tell us how we can help.

***************

18 Comments

Filed under Metal Detecting

18 responses to “Why Can’t We Do This?

  1. There is no reason that I can think of that this could not happen in the states. The problem I could see is fighting with the DNR and the Archies. This would have to be implemented at the National level for the trickle down effect for each state Department of Natural Resources. If I had the money, I would make the video.

  2. Kenny, something along this line needs to be done professionally, and must meet the approval of all the manufacturers. Not a project for a detectorist.

  3. wintersen

    Super idea.
    I’ve propagated the message for you, Dick.

  4. Gary Kemper

    I think it would be good for Ireland.The video could be good for here in the States for areas that are already under control of the archaeologists. The problem with a country wide plan is that it would give control of all areas to the archaeologists. I don’t feel the archaeologists need control over more areas. Historical areas are well documented in our country and much is known through recorded history about those areas. I don’t think we learn much more about an historical area,in comparison to what is learned in England, because of our existing documentation.

    Keeping in mind that we are talking about metal objects only,finding something in one of our historical areas is not to be taken likely as it does prevent the items from deteriorating and it does give us further knowledge. I think the push to keep metal detectorists out of more areas is because of the possibility of non-metallic objects being in an area. I don’t feel that keeping people from finding items or forcing them to do something that they do not wish to do with an item should be taken lightly.

    Stopping the natural history of an item by forcing someone to let an archaeologist determine the future history concentrates too much on the item and ignores real history.

    Nothing is free and we pay the price of losing the real future history of items when areas are determined to be historically significant. The problems here in the States is one of archaeologist not willing to admit to what they are doing in regards to history,therefore a limit to that is hard to attain.

    • Gary, I guess I didn’t explain myself too well. All I suggested was why not get the manufacturers to produce a professional video, similar to the one Liam put together. One that we could all use when we have to visit city hall to present our case.
      And adjunct, if you will, to our efforts in overturning bans, opening up parks, etc,.

      I was not inferring that we should push for a PAS. Only talking video,

      • Gary Kemper

        My comments were directed at Mr. Stout’s opening post. We have no need to promote the archaeological “importance’ of sites here in the U.S. That is already being promoted and is taken to extremes.

        Our problems with the city parks,as you mentioned, is not one of historical significance but rather damage to the parks. Archaeologists will take advantage of that sometimes and try to, and succeed, in getting a places banned by promoting historical issues, although the damage to the park is the only real issue, but a good one to use in their favor.

        To get an area opened I think a video showing proper detecting techniques could be helpful,along with references where proper standards are taught. Unfortunately we have no central location for proper standards. The closest we have is metal detecting forums and the issues that deal with the things that are hurting our hobby most are,for the most part, not properly moderated nor are they encouraged to be discussed.

        While there are exceptions,many in our hobby are too worried about shooting videos that promote themselves rather than the hobby and many are not willing to detect low key to keep places from being banned.

        A manufacturers video as you spoke of could be a good thing. It could show people how to go into a park with a digger in their back pocket with a cut off handle to look low key. It could show people detecting alone and/or in early morning,late night or any time that there is a minimal chance of being seen by people that don’t understand the hobby. The manufacturers could tell people they don’t need fancy cameras to record their hunts or anything on a detector other than features that help them locate and retrieve a target quickly.

        I think the manufactures should stick to manufacturing and promoters should stick to promoting and detectorists should stick to detecting here in the U.S. Of course, if an area is banned ,whether it be a city park or a Country, something has to be done and just about anything could be worth a try.

      • Gary, kind of lost me there. Did you watch the whole video?

        ALL I was suggesting is that it would be nice to have well done video JUST LIKE THAT which promotes all the good things that detectorists do. One that you might present to a parks commission, and that might persuade them to reverse a ban, etc..

  5. Gary Kemper

    Yes I did watch it. I agree that a video (like that) to show a park commission “all the good things” we do ,could help remove a ban, but only if the place that is banned were of historical significance and we were willing to let someone else decide what to do with our finds.

    That is not the problem here in the U. S. If someone here wants to work with the archaeologists they can do that. The problem here is that detectorists want to be left alone and want to be able to hunt on property that should not be restricted. A video (unlike that) that would show proper techniques, as to not hurt the property, would be more helpful in getting bans removed.

    I think a main point is that in England the standards are established and ,for instance, there would be nothing wrong with seeing a group of people detecting. That could work well for Ireland as I believe detectorists there would be willing to detect under the same guidelines. Those Countries have a potential for historic metal items to be found most anywhere because of the history of those Countries.

    We already have the right in most areas ,whether public or private, to do as we wish(in regards to detecting) by being considered part owners or full owners of those properties. The problem is that the public area rights as well as private property rights are being eliminated or restricted. This is being done both by archaeologists trying to control areas they do not already have and by detectorists that abuse those rights by detecting improperly. Keeping those two problems in mind a detectorist adds to the likelihood of places getting banned just by being seen detecting.

    If we had a system in place as there is in England it could help eliminate the fact that people do not like having to look over their shoulder ,while detecting, in fear they be told they are doing something wrong. They would not have to worry about hurting the hobby by being seen. There is still a “turf war” going on here and the detectorists are not willing to say “here you win” Many do not realize how fortunate they are in comparison to other Countries and are helping us lose the battle by the way they detect. They do that in many ways.

    Yes,a video ” that might persuade them to reverse a ban, etc..” could be a good thing if that video would show how we could properly detect an area without damaging property. If we would have to give up our right to items in order to hunt, that is a different story for a different video.

  6. Gary Kemper

    Just my opinion but I think being able to present a professionally done video similar to this would go a long way toward promoting our pastime here in the states, especially when dealing with local governing bodies.-Dick Stout

    I agree and think it would but only if we are willing to let someone control our finds. I don’t think we need to promote our pastime to those that want to control our pastime. It depends on what a person considers their pastime to be.
    Metal detecting to me is a pastime where I can find and keep items.
    Metal detecting to someone else may be where they want to give up control of items they find. Either type of detecting is proper. The confusion comes when we talk about “our pastime” using a general term.

    • Gary, I give up. You win….

      • I didn’t realize that disc440 and Dick Stout were the same person. I hope that pulling the quote was not taken as an insult. I thought i was discussing the issue with another poster and may have worded things differently had I known. I do stand by my comments and appreciate the fact that I was allowed to post them.

  7. Bigtony

    Hello Dick, I am glad that you posted the video, it was a good work for sure and should help this crazy hobby that we are addicted too. I believe it would have it’s place here or around the world if the US Manufacturers made something along this same theme.
    We all agree on your site or elsewhere that we need to promote ourselves because others take cheap shots at us all of the time like the insurance and beer commercials and alike – but that isn’t what we are about at all.
    I for one (and there are many who have done much more then my donation) have donated time to recover a American Revolutionary British Breast plate (in fabulous condition) to the Museum Farm where we detected. So, it can work for both the hobbyist and museums – maybe the video is a good start towards better relationships and new connections in the future.

  8. Jimnick

    There is a similar problem in France. French manufacturer XP published a webpage relating the recent discovery of a huge (22.000 roman coins) hoard with a DEUS metal detector.

    Here is the link : http://www.xpmetaldetectors.com/blog-detection/decouvertes/laurence-trouve-22-000-pieces-romaines-avec-son-detecteur-de-metaux-deus/

    If you Google translate the last paragraphs, you’ll see that this discovery was commented by british autorities, including the Minister of Culture, comparing the succes of their “Portable Antiquity Scheme” to the situation in France, concluding : “This is in direct contrast to the situation in France where detection is widespread but where there is no possibility of declaring his discoveries which causes a major loss to the archaeological knowledge”

    Sounds familiar ?

    France gets closer and closer to win this fight, many hobbyists and the XP company are working in the right direction.

    So, you guys in the States, there’s only one way : never dispair, keep hammering the nail’s head, . Yes, it will take some time, but the goal achievement might be closer than you think, and especially if US manufacturers join the fight together.

    A good subject to submit on US metal detecting forums.

    Cheers

    • There is nothing keeping detectorists from working with archaeologists in the States. Why would anyone want to promote a system where we have to report finds to the people that want to take them away ? If manufacturers get too cozy with archaeologists in the U. S. it will hurt their business. In other Countries, the entire Country is considered to be of historical significance. The problem here in the States is that too many areas are considered to be historically significant.

      I think the majority of detectorists here know what treasure hunting is about. It is the minority that is pushing us to their idea of treasure hunting. Are you willing to admit that the natural history of an item stops when someone is forced to something with that item ?
      Or are you only interested in past history ?

      • Gary, please. Stop. You are barking up the wrong tree with all this. My point, for the umpteenth time, is that we could use a video along the lines of the one Liam put together. One that would be available to anyone who might be having problems with local governing bodies. It has nothing at all to do with getting archaeologists involved in anything. At least that was my intention. I have obviously failed.

  9. Understood. Videos can be useful to get a point across. This is what i understand-

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s